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Staybrite



Number of posts: 8316
Age: 44
Localisation: Seattle
Registration date: 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:02 pm

Well with regards to our church it looks as if things are getting even tougher.

One of the cornerstone families in our church has decided to leave. They claim that it has nothing to do with our current troubles, but they are not moving from their home. They just claim that God is leading them elsewhere (away from institutional type churches). Maybe it's true, who knows.

Also the school we meet at for service has decided to double our rent effective immediately.

We are ripe for a miracle.
Or possibly God is telling us we have served our purpose and it is time to pack it in.

_________________
"I used to be indecisive.......... Now I'm not sure."
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topshot rhit



Number of posts: 1790
Localisation: Indiana
Registration date: 2007-01-30

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:45 am

I suppose now isn't the time to share this, but you know me so I will anyway. This was a devotional I got yesterday that seemed appropriate to your situation.



There are many ways in which we can worship the LORD. There are those moments when we praise Him with a heart of celebration and other moments when
we worship Him with a heart of contrition and brokenness. To always
worship God in contrition and brokenness may cause us to miss the joy
of celebrating His forgiveness and love. But, to always celebrate His
forgiveness and love may cause us to miss seeing the depth of our need
for repentance.

What I am about to say may not be well received, but you know me, I'm going
to preach the Truth! When is the last time your church was so moved by
God, that repentance broke out throughout the worship center? When is
the last time that your worship was so filled with the power and
presence of God, that celebration was replaced with deep conviction and
true repentance? This is not allowed in most churches today, because 1)
It is not trendy 2) It will disrupt the order of the service 3)
Repentance isn’t what people want to do when they come to worship.

This, to me, seems to be one of the greatest enemies facing the Church
today—COMFORT! It is uncomfortable to repent. It is uncomfortable to be
so touched by God that we are brought to a place of deep humility in
the worship service. It is uncomfortable when God moves and completely
messes up what's printed in the bulletin, that which we've worked so
hard on, trying to make the perfect uplifting worship service. Our
seeker sensitive approach to worship might be that which not only is
hindering true worship, but that which is hindering the lost world from
being saved.

"But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while
everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a
sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be
laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is
really among you!"(I Corinthians 14:24-25).

Here, Paul gives us a model and picture, even Biblical instructions about the
church and about a seeker. Paul does not tell us to soften or water
down the worship to make the unbeliever feel comfortable. Instead, he
suggests just the opposite. What will truly lead the unbeliever to say,
"God is really among you!" is to do that which brings conviction and
repentance—the uncomfortable!

In this Scripture, the unbeliever becomes convinced that he is a sinner.
The church doesn't try to woo the sinner in or comfort him by appearing
like the world. Instead, the church is prophesying, proclaiming the
Truth, which brings the lost one to realize he is a sinner. The
unbeliever is drawn to God not by being comfortable, but by being
uncomfortable! This is so contrary to the typical church of today. The
church is so bent on making everyone comfortable that so much is being
missed, so much is being tolerated that it is as if God is NOT really
among us!

Notice too, that the unbeliever was so moved by God that the secrets of his
heart was laid bare. The only thing to happen at that point was for the
unbeliever to "fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really
among you!"

This is what happened when Peter was preaching in Acts chapter 2:36-39
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus,
whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to
Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the
name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will
receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your
children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God
will call."

This no-nonsense approach to proclaiming Jesus led to thousands coming to
know Christ in a single day! No gimmicks, no video clips from Hollywood
were shown to support the pastor's message! Just the power of God's
Word being proclaimed. If your preacher needs a drama to help convey
his message you need a new preacher because nothing is more dramatic
than God Almighty speaking through a man of God!

When we, as the Church, lift up the name of Jesus, Jesus will draw all men
unto Himself. But, when we lift up our worship service, planning it and
fashioning it merely to bring comfort and ease, enjoyment and humor,
the unbeliever will not fall down before God and worship Him. At best,
they will merely worship our worship.

Could it be that the motive behind the trendy worship is not to connect
people to Christ, but to connect people to a church? Could it be that
we are wanting to fill a church rather than have Christ fill hearts? I
think we need to hold up our trendy worship to the light of inspection
and see just what our true motive really is? Are we turning true God
seekers into church people, or authentic disciples of Christ?

_________________
"If you are not concerned about your neighbor's salvation,
you should be concerned about your own."
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Guilty/Forgiven



Number of posts: 2693
Age: 42
Localisation: Yucca Valley, CA
Registration date: 2007-05-18

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:08 am

I don't know that this will help any, but our little church has been here since '64 and has been through a roller coaster of attendance, struggles, finances, splits, etc. over the years.

As long as humans are involved, there will always be difficulty and low times... but because God is involved, there will always be growth (even if for 2 or 3 in attendance).
In the 70s and 80s attendance was between 50 to 200. Throughout the 90s it dropped as low as TEN people. Those were times of faith for the few involved, and God was the one who "multiplied the loaves and fish" (not quite to 5000). Today, over 10 years later, it's rather healthy and can pack in 150 on any Sunday.

These are times of faith for those left and for your pastor. Pray about M.O., pray about growth, outreach, etc. Focus on helping the community and you'll be shocked at how the Lord uses that. Our pastor will call us up and ask "hey there's a single mother who's gonna be kicked out of her home cuz her ex left the place such a mess with car parts and junk that they're gonna evict her if she don't clean it up, but she don't have the money... whadya say ?" And church members show up, spend the day cleaning and blessing. Next thing u know, people are showing up to church the next few sundays you never saw before.
Again, I don't know if this helps, but I figure it couldnt hurt to share that.
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Staybrite



Number of posts: 8316
Age: 44
Localisation: Seattle
Registration date: 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:19 pm

topshot rhit wrote:
Could it be that the motive behind the trendy worship is not to connect
people to Christ, but to connect people to a church? Could it be that
we are wanting to fill a church rather than have Christ fill hearts? I
think we need to hold up our trendy worship to the light of inspection
and see just what our true motive really is? Are we turning true God
seekers into church people, or authentic disciples of Christ?


I know it is our Pastor's goal to bring seekers to Christ and make them "contagioius Christians. Then the goal is turn those "contagious Christians" into authentic disciples of Christ (as he as said from day one). But it just isn't happening (me included). So I don't think it is the goal that is wrong, just the approach (and the attitude of the flock).

BTW I have read several devotionals, and was rather impressed by the way that one was written. Where did you get it from?

--

_________________
"I used to be indecisive.......... Now I'm not sure."
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Staybrite



Number of posts: 8316
Age: 44
Localisation: Seattle
Registration date: 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:25 pm

apologetixfreak wrote:
Our pastor will call us up and ask "hey there's a single mother who's gonna be kicked out of her home cuz her ex left the place such a mess with car parts and junk that they're gonna evict her if she don't clean it up, but she don't have the money... whadya say ?" And church members show up, spend the day cleaning and blessing. Next thing u know, people are showing up to church the next few sundays you never saw before.
Again, I don't know if this helps, but I figure it couldnt hurt to share that.


I agree, I get involved a few times a year with local outreach stuff (sometimes just helping an old widower move or something like that), and it is very rewarding. But it seems we seldom see any church growth from outreach (not that growth should be an ultimate goal). There are also a few other factors working against us.... We are in Western Washington and most people do not believe in God or organized religion, and not because they haven't been shown the truth. Also for some reason our little town (population about 4,000) has a nearly 10 churches with three of those being start-up Churches in the last 5 years. That may not seem like a lot, but in our part of the state it is.

_________________
"I used to be indecisive.......... Now I'm not sure."
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topshot rhit



Number of posts: 1790
Localisation: Indiana
Registration date: 2007-01-30

PostSubject: Re: Struggling Church   Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:48 pm

Staybrite wrote:
BTW I have read several devotionals, and was rather impressed by the way that one was written. Where did you get it from?
http://emeds.injesus.com/
There have been very few I haven't agreed with in the several years I've gotten them.

_________________
"If you are not concerned about your neighbor's salvation,
you should be concerned about your own."
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