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PostSubject: Study Question   Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 pm

I use a study bible alot. One thing I have noticed is how many times in the notes about different verses it says "this is a possible translation" or "many original manuscripts did not include this verse" or " this was added at time of translation."
I read a book called "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman that explains some of this. It seems that scribes through the decades have made changes...adding to, taking away and rewording verses. I think that is true.. i don't think what we have today is 100% correct but I do think the original letters were.
What do ya'll think when you look in the notes in your bible and it says something wasn't in the original script or something MIGHT be the right translation.
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unworthy

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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:48 pm

copyist errors.
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Quote :
copyist errors.

I agree there are copyist errors but I personally think it goes beyond that. I think things have been added and taken away from the original script...not to mention that there are literally tons of different translations today and I find it hard to believe that any one of them is "right" or "perfect" over the others. I believe in Christ not because of scripture but because the Holy Spirit testified to the truth of who Christ is to my spirit. I think that's the whole idea of walking by the spirit. The Bible is Gods word and we are blessed to have it but its not totally necessary to have it to be a Christian. The early church didn't have a bible and not everyone got a letter from Paul or Peter or James...but all did get the Holy Spirit to lead them. We are to be led by the spirit...not a book.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:11 am

brokentulsa wrote:

I agree there are copyist errors but I personally think it goes beyond that. I think things have been added and taken away from the original script...not to mention that there are literally tons of different translations today and I find it hard to believe that any one of them is "right" or "perfect" over the others. I believe in Christ not because of scripture but because the Holy Spirit testified to the truth of who Christ is to my spirit. I think that's the whole idea of walking by the spirit. The Bible is Gods word and we are blessed to have it but its not totally necessary to have it to be a Christian. The early church didn't have a bible and not everyone got a letter from Paul or Peter or James...but all did get the Holy Spirit to lead them. We are to be led by the spirit...not a book.

But if you look at some of the things added, the general idea is still the same.

I don't recall the verse but I know one instance, the original said "He then went to the Sea of Galilee." translated from the Greek. When I looked at the different versions, the idea was the same "He went to the Sea of Galilee next." or along those lines.

I agree we don't need a Bible to be a Christian, but it certainly helps. How do you know it was the Holy Spirit that testified the truth of Jesus to you?
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:27 pm

Here is an example of what I am talking about....Mark 16...
16 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you. 8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid...
...
[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]
9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
14 Later
Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for
their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had
seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
............
I think this book ended with verse 8 and everything after it was added later and is not from God. I would say ignore verses 9 on. One dangerous thing about this is some churches built their theology on verses 9 on...especially 15 through 18. While I agree we are to go into the world and share the good news I do not think Baptism is necessary for salvation and I think verse 17 and 18 just are not true in any way.
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:40 am

Many times, though, when the different translations say that something was not in the original text, they mean that it was not in the oldest COMPLETED texts they were using. However, many of these were added when fragmented versions were found. Besides, the story of Jesus's ascension is also shared in the first of Acts, I would say that the fragmented versions should have been included in this instance.

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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:02 am

James affirms verse 18 - let the elders anoint the sick among you and he will be healed.

And what alldat said is true as well - some of the manuscripts they have are imcomplete.
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:53 am

Here's an excerpt from my study called "Not a Blind Faith" -

http://www.guiltyforgiven.com/not/not06.html
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:24 pm

Because I speak many languages, I like to read passages in 2 or 3 languages (usually English and French) because sometimes the grammar of a particular passage can confuse me. As well, different vocabulary means a different way to understand and interpret what the author was really trying to convey. Sometimes, words in a particular language are insufficient for the context.

As to "missing" verses, or "added" verses like bt referred to in Mark 16, I really don't know enough to conclude anything. Whether they were omissions in certain manuscripts or what, I'd like to know.
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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:02 pm

Quote :
As to "missing" verses, or "added" verses like bt referred to in Mark
16, I really don't know enough to conclude anything. Whether they were
omissions in certain manuscripts or what, I'd like to know.

I recommend the book "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman. There is also alot of study forums and essays online. There is also a show called The Naked Archeologist hosted by Simcha Jacobovicithat that examines this topic as well as alot of misconception about the scripture. You can get his books as well as videos of season 1 and 2 of the show from amazon. Very interesting stuff.
(note to DBF...if your parents don't want you to read this book or watch these shows then don't...do not disobey your parents)
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:03 am

brokentulsa wrote:
Quote :
As to "missing" verses, or "added" verses like bt referred to in Mark
16, I really don't know enough to conclude anything. Whether they were
omissions in certain manuscripts or what, I'd like to know.

I recommend the book "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman. There is also alot of study forums and essays online. There is also a show called The Naked Archeologist hosted by Simcha Jacobovicithat that examines this topic as well as alot of misconception about the scripture. You can get his books as well as videos of season 1 and 2 of the show from amazon. Very interesting stuff.
(note to DBF...if your parents don't want you to read this book or watch these shows then don't...do not disobey your parents)

Be careful with Ehrman. He's brilliant, certainly, but he's also an atheist, correct?
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unworthy

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PostSubject: Re: Study Question   Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:18 am

this is a can of worms I do not open up... so I will put my comment regarding it here and then I shall be silent because if there were a topic upon which "making a brother stumble" is based (intellectually wise) then this is certainly it. Anything which makes one question or doubt the validity and veracity of God's Word is by my definition playing with fire.

my perspective is this:

God is God. No one can usurp His Will and His Word is exactly what He wants it to be.

*I will PM about the topic but I will not discuss it openly here.*
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