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 The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE

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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:47 am

Controversy time.

Ok, what I get from the writings of the ex-Barren Crosser is this, Salvation is more dependant upon us than a simple decision to follow Christ. That there is much more responsibility upon us than the finished work of Christ to keep following Him and to be "sinless". Using several Scriptures, he single handedly demolishes the writings and interpretations of the Christian Church over the last couple centuries (much like a cultist would do).

Sure, it "feels" better when we're doing what God wants us to do. It feels good to know you're following the 10 commandments and praying, and reading Scripture constantly, and avoiding sins.... but, DOING all these things does not make us righteous. It is the finished work of Christ that makes us righteous before the Father, after that He asks us to be obedient and do the things He asks, but never says a sealed, adopted child of God who dies with an unconfessed sin will be cast into hell. That would be a works oriented salvation dependant upon me, not "kept" in heaven by the One who finished the work of salvation.

This is his link for those who've not been to his website:
http://www.michaeldrive.com/en/spiritual.shtml
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PostSubject: Re: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:50 pm

apologetixfreak wrote:
Controversy time.

Ok, what I get from the writings of the ex-Barren Crosser is this, Salvation is more dependant upon us than a simple decision to follow Christ. That there is much more responsibility upon us than the finished work of Christ to keep following Him and to be "sinless".

Oh boy, sounds like some of my Mormon friends.

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"I used to be indecisive.......... Now I'm not sure."
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topshot rhit



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PostSubject: Re: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:26 pm

Quote :
How does one get “saved”? Or in other words; How DO we find God?
Conclusion; Chapter 2 explains this in detail, but basically, it is
this:
The belief in God’s Holy “Word”; the acknowledgment that we have
sinned, and it’s penalty (which we have just covered); the belief in
our ‘saviour’, Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh; sent here to pay
OUR penalty with His death, and believing that God raised Him 3 days
later. We then confess and forsake our sins in being righteous and
keeping God’s commandments; and finally, being completely surrendered
of all idols, and remaining faithful to the death. Only then, can we be
a “friend” of God.
Sounds good to me. We are saved by faith in Jesus, but faith without works is dead so repentance and actually following God's commands is part of the deal.

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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:54 am

I read the chapter on "How does one find God" on his website. I don't really see a problem with his teaching.

Here is a brief study for you to do on salvation by grace alone and what role our good works play:

READ EPHESIANS 2:8-10

1. What does this passage say about how we are saved?
2. What does it say about our works/good deeds?

Faith in Christ is all that is necessary for salvation. God provided all the grace needed to save someone. Salvation is a gift from God. We were created FOR good works, but those works do not save us.

But, many will argue that it takes faith PLUS works in order to be saved. Let’s read a different passage in James that would appear to support this.

READ JAMES 2:14-24

1. What does this passage say about our works?

So, when you compare these two passages together, we see that we are fully saved by grace, through faith. But, our works are the PROOF of that faith. Any faith not shown by our works is dead and useless. This is what many would refer to as "easy beliefism".

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PostSubject: Re: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:29 am

I think what stumbles me in reading his writings is not what you guys have mentioned, as I agree with most of what Michael says, it's the whole "Commandments necessary for salvation" thing that kinda trips me up.
I spent several years studying the cults and that's one factor of cults that is common, that you must obey commandments to be saved. I definitley see where he's coming from with the faith without works factor, but it's a fine line to make sure you don't push commandments as a necessity for salvation. yes, they do follow salvation, but they're not necessary FOR salvation. The thief on the cross knows that very well.
I'm not bagging on Michael's writings, but he does come across as "exclusive"istic.. that he was revealed this and all the churches of today are wrong for not teaching those commandments. It's a little dangerous to think that you've been revealed something that all the churches don't know... that's where cults begin. I'm not saying he's a cult, or that he's necessarily wrong in what he's saying, it's just the way he's coming across.
Please tell me if I'm reading him wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: The Gospel according to Michael DRIVE   Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:49 am

Also, it's pretty obvious he doesn't believe in security, which I always say To each his own. But under the section:
IF A MAN HAS LIVED RIGHTEOUS, AND THEN IS IN SIN WHEN HE DIES, IS HE STILL “SAVED”?
he answers it in the negative.
I can't think of them all right now, but there were many stories of righteous men sinning when they died... Solomon didn't finish well, Samson didn't finish well, etc. Yet they're lauded in other parts of Scripture. The Bible never says they blew it, so they they were cast into hades.

I don't know that his understanding jives with the whole of Scripture. One who believes that a saved person can fall into sin and die and go to hell, believes that we have more to do with our salvation than what God has already accomplished. I guess we'll be able to stand before God and say "thanks for dying on the cross, and hey, I hung there until the end". That makes us responsible for our ultimate salvation.
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