Are they really Christian?

Through The Dark Radio wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

Good, good.  Let the hate flow through you

That's so wrong....on more than one level....kind of ashamed that it made me laugh (kind of).  

I didn't laugh.  I just don't get it.  I think it is supposed to be a Star Wars joke?

I laughed, too.  No shame, Soldier.

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

My wife and I talked about this very thing recently. Speaking generally, Christians tend to use "righteous indignation" to step away from the things in our world. Every time we do this we take a step back and our sphere of influence lessens. Eventually,  we're just in our "own four walls", effecting no one. That's an absolute violation of the Great Commission. It keeps us from being salt and light.

alldatndensum wrote:

I didn't laugh.  I just don't get it.  I think it is supposed to be a Star Wars joke?

Yes, it is a Star Wars joke.

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metaldude wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

My wife and I talked about this very thing recently. Speaking generally, Christians tend to use "righteous indignation" to step away from the things in our world. Every time we do this we take a step back and our sphere of influence lessens. Eventually,  we're just in our "own four walls", effecting no one. That's an absolute violation of the Great Commission. It keeps us from being salt and light.

I had this same discussion with my wife. We were watching 171 Kids and Counting (or however many they have) and they homeschool, home-church, none of the kids go anywhere without an escort and when they hit 20, they court (or get courted, for the girls) with a chaperone.

I understand wanting to protect your kids and teaching them your faith, but the kids are so sheltered...

The particular episode we watched was when the family went to Scotland and a street performer told Jim Bob he didn't believe in God. Jim Bob told him God loved him and the guy says "Good to know someone loves me." and instead of stopping to listen to what the guy had to say, Jim Bob just kept on with his script about being a sinner and all that.

So, not only are the kids sheltered, they're being taught that when they proseletyze to not listen to the person they're witnessing to.

Okay, off my soapbox.

I don't share my faith or my beliefs very often, but when I do, I do my best to listen to the other person and whatever difficulties they might have. Also, I tend to talk more about why I believe in God than just starting with the Gospel, because otherwise, there is no point to talking about the Gospel!

ishmael81 wrote:

metaldude wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

My wife and I talked about this very thing recently. Speaking generally, Christians tend to use "righteous indignation" to step away from the things in our world. Every time we do this we take a step back and our sphere of influence lessens. Eventually,  we're just in our "own four walls", effecting no one. That's an absolute violation of the Great Commission. It keeps us from being salt and light.

I had this same discussion with my wife. We were watching 171 Kids and Counting (or however many they have) and they homeschool, home-church, none of the kids go anywhere without an escort and when they hit 20, they court (or get courted, for the girls) with a chaperone.

I understand wanting to protect your kids and teaching them your faith, but the kids are so sheltered...

The particular episode we watched was when the family went to Scotland and a street performer told Jim Bob he didn't believe in God. Jim Bob told him God loved him and the guy says "Good to know someone loves me." and instead of stopping to listen to what the guy had to say, Jim Bob just kept on with his script about being a sinner and all that.

So, not only are the kids sheltered, they're being taught that when they proseletyze to not listen to the person they're witnessing to.

Okay, off my soapbox.

Your right, people who home-school their kids and do everything they can to keep them away from evil should be shot...or at least have their kids taken away from them. (supposed to be said with a hint of humor...don't get too mad at me brother)

Oh wait, I home-schooled my kids and wouldn't let them roam the streets alone until they hit 15+ (even then they have to tell me where they are going and with whom).  I also won't let them date anyone without bringing them home to meet me and their mother....and their prospective date better claim to be a follower of Christ or forget it. Probably not as extreme as the family you described...but certainly not the norm

I have to confess that I haven't seen the show you are talking about but I think families like that are the pendulum swing reaction to what is going on with most families these days.  There is an epidemic of children between the ages of 7-18 who run around our town and neighborhoods until all hours of the night with not a responsible parent in sight.  I think I would rather see a kid get "over-sheltered" than rob a home or get pregnant at age 11 because they had little to no parental guidance.

Staybrite wrote:

ishmael81 wrote:

metaldude wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:

I am beginning to think that CHRISTIANS as a whole are no longer here to minister.  It has little to do with bands.

My wife and I talked about this very thing recently. Speaking generally, Christians tend to use "righteous indignation" to step away from the things in our world. Every time we do this we take a step back and our sphere of influence lessens. Eventually,  we're just in our "own four walls", effecting no one. That's an absolute violation of the Great Commission. It keeps us from being salt and light.

I had this same discussion with my wife. We were watching 171 Kids and Counting (or however many they have) and they homeschool, home-church, none of the kids go anywhere without an escort and when they hit 20, they court (or get courted, for the girls) with a chaperone.

I understand wanting to protect your kids and teaching them your faith, but the kids are so sheltered...

The particular episode we watched was when the family went to Scotland and a street performer told Jim Bob he didn't believe in God. Jim Bob told him God loved him and the guy says "Good to know someone loves me." and instead of stopping to listen to what the guy had to say, Jim Bob just kept on with his script about being a sinner and all that.

So, not only are the kids sheltered, they're being taught that when they proseletyze to not listen to the person they're witnessing to.

Okay, off my soapbox.

Your right, people who home-school their kids and do everything they can to keep them away from evil should be shot...or at least have their kids taken away from them. (supposed to be said with a hint of humor...don't get too mad at me brother)

Oh wait, I home-schooled my kids and wouldn't let them roam the streets alone until they hit 15+ (even then they have to tell me where they are going and with whom).  I also won't let them date anyone without bringing them home to meet me and their mother....and their prospective date better claim to be a follower of Christ or forget it. Probably not as extreme as the family you described...but certainly not the norm

I have to confess that I haven't seen the show you are talking about but I think families like that are the pendulum swing reaction to what is going on with most families these days.  There is an epidemic of children between the ages of 7-18 who run around our town and neighborhoods until all hours of the night with not a responsible parent in sight.  I think I would rather see a kid get "over-sheltered" than rob a home or get pregnant at age 11 because they had little to no parental guidance.

I'm not opposed to homeschooling or home-churching (well, maybe a little) but I also don't think we should shelter our kids too much. I know some kids that were pretty sheltered (I was not) and when we hit college, they were in for a pretty serious shock.

I agree that it is possible to over shelter your kids (and I have some reservations with home-churching as well). But I think it is rare compared the epidemic of "under sheltering" or absentee parenting that seems rampant today.

The Barna Group has released a new study in a book form called "You Lost Me".  It is about the current trend of why young people ages 18-29 are leaving the church.  57% will leave and never come back.  One of those reasons, of the 5 biggies they tackle, is over-sheltering.

I don't think it is wrong to protect your kids.  If you do partake of pop culture, you need to talk to them about how to counter that culture and why some things displease God.  I don't think that our Heavenly Father is looking down on our planet and giving a stamp of approval to Miley Cyrus twerking on a married man, homosexual relations, sex-trafficking, etc.  If you choose to abstain from certain things, you need to be sure to have conversations with your kids as to why and not just throw at them the old "because I said so" excuse.  If you can't tell them what is wrong with it, then you are definitely being over-protecting.

Also, we need to be sure and not be too free with what we teach our children.  I think it is fine and quite morally upstanding to abstain from tv and movies with extra doses of nudity/sex, horror & graphic violence, etc.  I think it is fine to have your kids stay away from music with over-sexed or party 'til you puke lyrics.  Explain to them why it is wrong if you do. 

Many Christian parents are already seeing the over-protective side and have stepped so far over to the other side that they let their kids have just about anything.  I am not convinced that this is the right thing to do, either.  There has to be a balance.  As your children get older, you are going to have to move back some and allow them to make their own choices but with your help.  As you see that they are trustworthy and trying to live a godly life themselves, you step back further and let them make the decisions that the Holy Spirit is teaching them to make.

Great post Alldat.

Good call alldat. It's not one or the other - it's a balance.

I was probably under-sheltered. My dad worked about 70 hours a week and my mom just couldn't keep up with me due to some health problems. But, they did make sure I was in church every week, even when I was hungover, and I think because they "trained me in the way to go", I came back to it later in life.

MY wife and I have a 5 year old and we struggle sometimes with this. She wants to overprotect and I'm probably a little more lenient on him.

Quote :

MY wife and I have a 5 year old and we struggle sometimes with this. She wants to overprotect and I'm probably a little more lenient on him.

That's probably not such a bad thing if your wife and you can work through it quickly and stick together with whatever you decide is best for him.  This could be a healthy check and balance system for helping your son grow into the man of God you'd like him to become.

alldatndensum wrote:

Quote :

MY wife and I have a 5 year old and we struggle sometimes with this. She wants to overprotect and I'm probably a little more lenient on him.

That's probably not such a bad thing if your wife and you can work through it quickly and stick together with whatever you decide is best for him.  This could be a healthy check and balance system for helping your son grow into the man of God you'd like him to become.

alldat,

You're like the Yoda of the CHM. So wise...

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

I would venture to compare "working in a band" no different than jobs in other "Christian" industries.

Not everyone who does the landscaping for a church, not everyone who works at a Christian bookstore, not everyone who works at a Church ran "soup kitchen", or Church thrift store... etc etc etc
are Christians.

Sit down for this one:  not all pastors in churches are Christians.

messiaen77 wrote:

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

I would venture to compare "working in a band" no different than jobs in other "Christian" industries.

Not everyone who does the landscaping for a church, not everyone who works at a Christian bookstore, not everyone who works at a Church ran "soup kitchen", or Church thrift store... etc etc etc
are Christians.

Sit down for this one:  not all pastors in churches are Christians.

What?!?!? How is that possible!?! You've gone too far, man, too far!

messiaen77 wrote:

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

I would venture to compare "working in a band" no different than jobs in other "Christian" industries.

Not everyone who does the landscaping for a church, not everyone who works at a Christian bookstore, not everyone who works at a Church ran "soup kitchen", or Church thrift store... etc etc etc
are Christians.

Sit down for this one:  not all pastors in churches are Christians.

*mind blown*  

Sad, but true.  There are pastors out there that have figured out that you can get some serious pay from a mega-church or large church if you are charismatic enough.

judemental fishes ...

What is "judemental"? If you're going to insult people and try to start arguments, at least spell your insult correctly.

This nonsense about Christians not being allowed to 'judge' anything is ridiculous......of course we're not supposed to make a judgement about someone's salvation, that's totally in God's hands. But behaviors and actions? Judge those all day....if something is wrong, then say with boldness that it's wrong. If someone claims to be a Christian, but consistently rejects right in favor of wrong, then by all means, judge the ACTIONS of that person and show mercy and compassion to the person. The verse never ever meant that people can do whatever they want and no one is allowed to question it.

People judge constantly but what is allowed and what isn't?  We are told that we can tell a tree by the fruit it bears when it comes to believers.  Isn't that judgement?

I don't see people as judging until it changes the way you interact with someone or identifies someone's sin and carries some sort of sentence with it.  Something like, "That guy's a queer and he's gonna bust Hell wide open for that!"  We don't know that, and this is the judgment we are supposed to avoid.  God may still have that guy on His radar to change his heart and life. 

Identifying sin, I don't think is wrong.  Recognizing someone's porn addiction or lying or stealing or whatever isn't a sin.  Treating them differently and putting real hatred with is the judgment we are not to do. 

When non-believers or former believers throw out the term "judgmental" these days, they are using it as a synonym for "bigoted, hateful Christians" as more of an insult than anything.  They do not realize that they are then judging us the way that they are telling us not to do.  Double standard, anyone?

messiaen77 wrote:

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

I would venture to compare "working in a band" no different than jobs in other "Christian" industries.

Not everyone who does the landscaping for a church, not everyone who works at a Christian bookstore, not everyone who works at a Church ran "soup kitchen", or Church thrift store... etc etc etc
are Christians.

Sit down for this one:  not all pastors in churches are Christians.

Sad but true

ishmael81 wrote:

What is "judemental"? If you're going to insult people and try to start arguments, at least spell your insult correctly.

Judemental means that you think like Jude.