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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Leaving Adventism   Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:51 pm

It's really difficult for me. It is really scary at times. I know that I still have years before I actually leave home and make my own choices about these things.

In order to organize my thoughts. I'll put topics in sections. I also think this is a great opportunity to tell people their beliefs because if people think about them it's usually like "Ummm...they go to church on Saturday... and.... yeah..." 

Sabbath: I was taught that it is the Seal of God. People will have different ideas of what is okay and not okay to do on the Sabbath which was confusing at times. They believe that it is important in end time events.

Mark of the Beast: I was taught that "Sunday worship" is or will be the mark of the beast. They call going to church on Sunday "Sunday worship" or "Sunday keeping" (as if it is a Sabbath for everyone who goes to church on Sunday). They teach that Constantine and the Catholic church tried to change the Sabbath to Sunday. Also in the Great Controversy in Chapter 3, it says how Satan was causing the Christians to celebrate on Sunday because of Jesus' resurrection pretty much. Like, he was bring their attention to Sunday or whatever. Also, they believe that Christians nowadays go to church on Sunday because of pagan influence on the church in that time period.

Spirit of Prophecy: This term is usually used to describe Ellen White's writing. Ellen White is their prophet. Well, a lot of them will say "She never called herself a prophet. She's a messenger or God." There isn't much of a difference to me. She copied a lot of things in many writings from other authors. She was really the main leader person until she died. She claimed to have visions from God. They began at a young age. She has a lot of books such as the Great Controversy, the Desire of Ages, Steps to Christ, and Ministry of Healing. (Don't buy them. I would pay you to not buy them.) Ellen is also referred to as Sister White, Mrs. White, E. G. White, Ellen G. White, and EGW. Her name before she got married was Ellen Gould Harmon.

Anti-Christ: the papacy.

Food and Drink: Ellen White advocated veganism. You will find many who are vegetarian. Some eat meat. They keep the dietary laws from Leviticus. No pork or shrimp or anything like that. Alcohol is forbidden.

History: Arose from the Millerite movement after it died out. Another descendant would be the Jehovah's Witnesses. Much like them, there is an emphasis on end times. Joseph Bates was the one who brought the Sabbath and also the idea that Sunday is the mark of the beast. (more history below)

Great Disappointment & the Investigative Judgement: Hm... This one may take a bit to explain. (Story time! Story time!) William Miller (leader of the Millerites) predicted that Jesus would come in 1843 or 1844 based off of Daniel 8:14. He had set dates n stuff. Well, Jesus did not come in 1843. So they waited for Jesus to come in 1844. I don't remember if there were one or 2 dates in that year, but October 22, 1844 was the final date. People were SO excited! They sold their stuff because they wouldn't need it. Jesus totally didn't come on Oct 22 1844. This is called the Great Disappointment. Some people went back to their original churches. Some lost faith in God entirely. Some continued to cling to this and try to figure it out like Ellen White, her husband, and others. Later, another pioneer named Hiram Edson apparently had a vision out in his field. It was of Jesus entering into the Most Holy Place/Holy of Holies. He told the crew and they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not coming back to Earth on Oct 22, he was going into the MHP/HoH! Right time, wrong event. So Jesus is in there and he blots out your sins. He started from Adam and goes to the present day. Whenever you confess a sin then it is blotted out. (Just make sure that you remember to confess everything before He comes back, before you die, or before He gets to your name because if you don't confess, there will be sin on your record.) This is the Investigative Judgement. It is one of the main pillars of Adventism. Wait... but what about Mark 16:19....... yeah....... That kinda messes up... the whole thing...

Assurance of Salvation: For me personally, it was confusing and I was never sure. When I was little, I didn't want Jesus to come back because I didn't think I was good enough to go to Heaven. I heard different ideas from different people and it was confusing.

Remnant: Some believe that the Seventh-Day Adventist Church is the remnant church. (egotism...) Others will say that they have the remnant message.

Prophecy Seminars: Don't go. Please. They usually don't even tell you that they're Adventist, but they are. It's a trap. They want to make you become SDA.

End Times: Scary stuff. Lots of emphasis of end times. Well, they'll teach that the protestant will unite with the Papacy and make one huge religion. People, mostly Sabbath-keepers, will be persecuted. One thing that scared me is that the apostate protestants are supposed to be in it, too. To a lot of Adventists, their Church is the truth. That would mean leaving it would make someone an apostate. I don't plan on joining the Catholic Church to destroy the Sabbath keepers, though...

Childrens books: SDA kid's books are often about being a good kid. If they're about Bible characters, there will be things from Ellen White books like Patriarchs and Prophets in there.

Additions: Did you know that the serpent in Genesis was sparkly and had wings? Did you know that it takes 7 days to get to Heaven? No. You didn't because that's not in the Bible.

Death: Similar beliefs as Jehovah's Witnesses. When you die, that's it. The next thing you know is Jesus' return (if you're saved). They may use Eccl. 9:5, Ps. 115:17, and any verse that calls death sleep to defend this.

Gospel: I feel like it will depend on the person. I think I was taught a combination of the actual gospel and a process of perfection. You have ask God to train you to become better or something.

Hell: Hell is not a place, it's an event. They teach that it happens after New Jerusalem comes down. The bad people and Satan want to conquer or whatever and then they burn and then it goes out. After that the righteous can do whatever.

3 Angels' Messages: The 3 angels in Revelation. They interpret it as something about leaving Sunday churches or whatever. I'll have to look at that more.

Misc: Michael the Archangel is Jesus, which is another belief shared with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Sins of righteous put on Satan before burning in hell OR that Satan is punished more for causing anyone to sin, whether righteous or wicked. Most now will believe the latter. The early Adventists believed that the sins of the righteous are eventually put of Satan. EGW's writings contain both truth and error, which can be worse than just straight error.

Also, I don't hate Adventists. They are my friends and family. I don't agree with all of their beliefs. I really like that Adventists help people in different parts of the world.

I realize that Ellen is a human and that she is not perfect. Her writings are often elevated much higher than they should be, though. I wouldn't be surprised if that hit in the head with a rock contributed to something. She was out for weeks.

Some people are happy Adventists and were never scared and worried like I was.

Some people would be like "Nononono! We don't believe that!" Maybe you don't. I'm saying things that the Church itself teaches or that many people believe. Also, something that pretty much any Adventist would have in common would be a Great controversy worldview.

I tried making this somewhat fun to write. I may have left something out. That's okay. I hope this was informative. A lot of people don't know these things because they don't just tell you everything.

You're brave if you've read all of that.

I just realized that... Well, they believe that there are sincere Christians who don't know the "truth" and they will be saved if they die before the end because of the truth they did know. I'm good at messing things up.

It's really stressful and mentally tiring to be leaving the SDA church now. I'm always around it. I just want to leave. I've left, but at the same time I can't because I'm raised in it.

I was really scared on Saturday at church because we were talking and prophecy and SDA prophecies coming true. I didn't want to go to hell or receive the mark of the beast. I'm leaving the "truth."

These types of fear tactics disturb me. You're scared into joining and too scared to leave.

Thanks for reading that. Thanks even if you just read bits and pieces because it is good to know...
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Driven

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:55 pm

How different is the SDA Bible from the standard Bible?

Thanks for the insight into SDA theology. I had no idea it was like that.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:09 pm

Most SDAs will use a normal Bible, but will use proof texts and verses taken out of context. They may also read the Bible with SDA "sunglasses" so even if the whole Bible is read, It is interpreted with an Adventist view.

However, there is an SDA paraphrase that is called The Clear Word or The Clear Word Bible. It puts SDA theology into the Bible pretty much.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:00 am

xenonlion,

MY wife and I just left a church where we were well-known, stable in our ministry positions and comfortable. We went from a church that ran 1400 between 2 services on Sunday that runs about 80 for one.

But ultimately, Jesus led us to leave. And that's the Truth. Not some doctrine, not one specific church. Jesus is Truth. Cling to Him and He will guide you where you need to be. Don't be afraid or scared. If you believe, you are saved, no matter what someone else says!
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:26 pm

Thanks. I always felt like it was too easy when people say that you are saved when you believe. I think that's what Paul told the jailer guy when he was freed from prison that one time. I never understood that verse very well. What does it mean?
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:47 pm

I assume you're talking about the Phillipian jailer in Acts 16.

For reference:
25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. 28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Some people will tell you it's to easy - you said it yourself. But Christianity is a faith that a child can understand.

As far as a specific verse and what it means, you're probably talking about verse 31 - believe on Jesus and you will be saved.

They said believe on Jesus, not know about him. They're talking about admitting that he is the son of God and he came to take away our sins. In other passages the Bible tells us we should also confess our sins. But there in Acts, Paul says all we have to do is believe.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:26 pm

Yes. That's the chapter I was talking about. That's really interesting. I really wish I had known that when I was little. I was told that there is more to that. Like I said earlier, I was really afraid of going to hell and getting the mark of the beast when I was little.
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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:33 am

xenonlion, I'm not gonna compare experiences or go into Truth vs Ellen G White, cuz it seems you've already got it all down with your initial post. (and yes, I read every word!)
 
What I want to do as a brother is to encourage you to KEEP ON reading and studying Scripture. Without the "glasses" of any man or woman-created organization, but rather basic Scripture. Read it all, even the stuff that doesn't make sense or the stuff that is very hard to understand. As you read more and more, you will become one who knows the truth strongly enough to prevent any false ideas to mess with your mind. I got involved in some funky doctrine at a young age, but the more I studied and read the Bible away from those teachings, the more clear the line was between God's Truth and the crap I had previously thought to be true.
 
This is exactly how a friend of mine came out of another "sect" of the Millerites. Back in the 80s he worked at the printing press at the WTBTS for Jehovah's Witnesses. He got a few buddies together and they began to secretly read JUST the Bible, no "WT Glasses" - they honestly believed that the Bible would support the teachings of Charles Taze on down to their Governing Body over them.
I don't even need to tell you the rest. One by one they began to come to a knowledge of the Truth and escaped the trap of the devil they'd been caught in.
Today Randy runs "Free Minds" ministry and has been involved in leading thousands out of the JWs. I trained under his methods when I held seminars on helping JWs to see the Truth. He taught me quite a bit of revealing stuff about what he was involved in as well as the other Millerite sects ie Adventists.
 
You have a great advantage knowing the Truth at a younger age, and also knowing the false teachings handed down from White and Miller.
 
Keep reading, keep studying.



http://freeminds2.org/
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:44 am

Thank you so much. I will keep reading and studying.

I've been talking to a lady who works for Life Assurance Ministries which is a ministry aimed to former Adventists and questioning Adventists. She's the editor for a magazine that the ministry puts out. It's really nice to talk to her because we can relate to each other a lot. She's the first former Adventist I've ever spoken to. She's also taught me a lot of things.

I really wonder when the best time to tell my parents will be. I know God will give me the right words to say. I don't know when to tell them, though. I kinda don't want to tell them face to face because I don't want to see them sad.
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:23 pm

I would go ahead and have a talk with them, tell them about your doubts, why you feel the way that you do, etc.  It may be that they peaceably allow you to try some different churches with some of your friends if they understand why you are having issues with this denomination.  Hiding this will just keep you torn inside.  At least if you talk to them, they will know they can trust you with your honesty. 

They might not act very nicely at first, but you need to be prepared for that.  If you are sure that the Holy Spirit is guiding you to move away from this church, then you need to act.  Sitting in silence only prolongs the misery.  Regardless of the here and now, you can rest assured that you can try out some different churches when you are out of high school and away from home.  That's only 3 more years.  I know--at your age, three years is a LONG time.  Three years doesn't seem like so much to me anymore.

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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:50 pm

I feel like they would just try to make me come back if I told them now. I want to be able to be away. Also, there is no way my parents would let me go to another church now.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:00 pm

Finally read your lengthy and informative post Liongirl. Wow! Quite eye-opening. While I find the history and beliefs of the SDA church fascinating, the most important thing is you and your salvation through Jesus. Much like Guilty/Forgiven said keep reading your bible and try to trust that our Lord can deliver you to salvation despite all our man made religions.
I remember a song where the singers says something to the effect of "a place where religion finally dies'. As people it seems we seem to forget that Christ did not start any religion, he came for us as his children and his church (not some silly denomination). Keep trusting in the Lord, and keep reading your bible. Praying for you sister.

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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:25 pm

Thank you. I need the courage to eventually tell my parents.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:56 pm

I will probably have to tell them this summer.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:06 pm

xenon,

I haven't posted recently - I'v been sick.

I think alldat is right. You need to tell your parents, and in a way that isn't confrontational. If they see you growing in your faith, it will be easier for them later which will make it easier for you.

I grew up Southern Baptist. When my wife and I got serious, we switched to Assembly of God (which isn't that different, except for their views on the Spirit). My parents were resistant at first, but when I explained that we were engaged and wanted to look for a church to land in when we got married, they were pretty open to that and felt it was pretty mature.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:55 pm

I will tell my parents. I need the courage to do it, though. I think my parents will be a little different, even if I do explain, though. How can I tell them in a way that is not confrontational?
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:03 pm

That's tough. I think you need to tell them that you've been praying about it and you feel that SDA isn't where God wants you right now. Just be honest and open and use a lot of "I" statements - I want to grow in my faith, I feel God is leading me - and very few "you" statements.

I know it's hard but hopefully your parents will see the struggle you're having and be supportive.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:18 pm

I would hope that they would be supportive, but I really doubt it. :\

Thank you for the advice. It helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:34 pm

Praying for you sister.

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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:35 pm

Thank you so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:09 pm

While I'm in agreement with everyone here encouraging xenon to discuss this with the parents, I'd also like to say that I've read multiple cases of family members who left SDA who were shunned or judged by family members. I have NO idea what kind of commitment Xenon's family has in SDA, but there are many who have very serious commitments that do look down upon others who've left the Adventists.

Xenon, I'm not saying this mean-spirited, I'm just a little fearful that none of us know your family or their commitment and I don't want you to have serious home problems. If you know your parents enough to realize they would be upset, but ultimately accepting, then by all means, I encourage it.

If at all possible live peaceably with your family, especially while you have to live at home - even if it means as one scenario: having to continue in the SDA, but continuing in a serious personal reading of Scripture and multiple readings of both sides of the belief (Walter Martin did a very good seminar on SDA and the harmless side vs the un-Biblical teachings of White, as well as many other authors on Apologetics: James White, Ravi Zacharias, etc). You shall KNOW the truth and the truth will set you free. I pray you go at this in a proper understanding of your situation, and know that you have this crazy little group of believers here who will listen to and support you - But right now, your parents are the most important relationship you have (second only to Jesus) and I personally prefer to hear that you are able to live peaceably with them.


Last edited by Guilty/Forgiven on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:46 pm

That's true. My parents will be worried about my salvation and also believe that I should "know better" than to leave. My parents won't just shrug there shoulders and say "Okay, that's fine." They will be worried about me. I really don't want them to.
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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:03 pm

My only concern for you is if they are so involved in SDA that they treat you differently. Again I don't know your parents, and I strongly believe we are to obey our parents as long as it doesn't go against God and His will. As long as you're living at home, you will need to submit to them and continue to love them. Should they treat you differently, it will be a struggle, but show them that love conquers staunch doctrines. Again I pray they will grow past their initial hurt and support you in your decisions.
worry is one thing, but like I said, I've read stories where SDA family was indifferent to family members who left their faith.
Just concerned about you. It was very hard for my wife and I when our kids were teens and they pulled away from the faith altogether. They decided in their hearts that belief in the Christian God (denominations and churches weren't the issue as it is in your case) was not important. They have friends who live alternative lifestyles and if they were to hold to the basic tenets of Scripture, they'd have to disagree with their lifestyles and religions. It became easier to dump the faith in favor of compromise and pleasing humans rather than God. I pray they one day return to the Truth of Scripture - but from a parents POV, if the parents think they are right on something and their child/teen strays from it  - it can be very heart breaking to them. We live and let live. Though are kids decisions aren't what we want, we never once got on their case or begged them or anything else. We told them they are grown ups and can make their own decisions - the worse thing to do to a teen is to force them to do or believe what they want them to.
In your case, you're right. Your beliefs now are correct and you are learning and growing in the true faith which is awesome. Keep that faith and follow the road God has chosen just for you alone.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:34 pm

I really hope that when I'm an adult, they will let me make different decisions. I don't need to worry about my adulthood really. I know that my sisters have made choices that my parents do not agree with and my parents didn't get on their case. If my parents spoke to them about it, it wasn't all the time or begging them or anything. What I'm doing is bigger than the others. I'm sure they'll still love me. They will probably view me a little differently. They'll still see me as their child.
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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Re: Leaving Adventism   Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:01 am

That is good to hear.

You will be in the prayers of all who read this.
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