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 Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...

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Guilty/Forgiven

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PostSubject: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:46 pm

Proverbs 31:6-7  New International Version (NIV)

Let beer be for those who are perishing,
    wine for those who are in anguish!
Let them drink and forget their poverty
    and remember their misery no more.


Remember context and let's hear what your best commentators, as well as your own Scriptural knowledge brings to this "easy to mis-use" passage.

I look forward to your input.
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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:11 pm

In context King Lemuel's mother told him that wine and strong drink are not for rulers as they may forget the law or pervert judgement.  But go ahead and use wine and strong drink to ease the pain of those who are suffering.

Use this passage with Ephesians 5:18: "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" and one should be able to maintain a balance.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:44 pm

Excellent. Do you suppose the Ephesians admonition was for His children in general (healthy and fine), and not addressing those who are suffering or dying ? As with Timothy's ailments:
1 Tim.5:23  Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

The key there seems to be "a little" ?

But would the original Scripture still stand for the mercy of the suffering and the dying elderly ?  Obviously today, alcohol is not our only pain relieving option, so it could be interpreted with today's remedies ?
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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:59 pm

It's a proven fact that alcohol in moderation has health benefits.  Ephesians says "Do not be drunk with wine..." it doesn't tell us to abstain from it.  I drink very little alcohol as alcoholism runs in my family but I don't tell anyone else that they can't or shouldn't drink.

It only takes a little alcohol to ease pain.  One doesn't have to be slobbering drunk to get some relief.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:43 am

Good points. I can't drink alcohol. Not because I have alcoholics on both sides of the family (and I do), but cuz I have a bum pancreas. When I swig one beer, I double over in pain as my pancreas punishes me for it.
Alcohol is definitely not a solution for my pain, I just found the passage to be interesting and open for some interesting discussion. Thanks for chatting with me on this, it was fun !
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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:28 am

You're welcome!  Thanks for posing the questions.  Made me think and dig a little.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:03 am

I thought I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the reason a "little wine" was added to the water for everyone to drink (even children) was in an effort to make the water potable (able to drink without being crippled by parasites or bacteria). Basically the same thing first and second world countries do to their drinking water now, only with chlorine instead of alcohol.

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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:34 am

Dude! I'm totally moving to a third world country! Party time, all the time!!  geek 

Just kidding...
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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:49 am

Staybrite wrote:
I thought I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the reason a "little wine" was added to the water for everyone to drink (even children) was in an effort to make the water potable (able to drink without being crippled by parasites or bacteria).  Basically the same thing first and second world countries do to their drinking water now, only with chlorine instead of alcohol.

I've been told that, too.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Xid wrote:
Staybrite wrote:
I thought I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the reason a "little wine" was added to the water for everyone to drink (even children) was in an effort to make the water potable (able to drink without being crippled by parasites or bacteria).  Basically the same thing first and second world countries do to their drinking water now, only with chlorine instead of alcohol.

I've been told that, too.

Oh good, I didn't dream it up (sometimes I wonder).

Cool thread by the way, we need more like this.

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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:19 pm

Staybrite wrote:
Quote :
Oh good, I didn't dream it up (sometimes I wonder).

Sometimes I wonder, too.  Did I learn this as an actual fact, or see it in a movie?
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:31 am

Xid wrote:
Staybrite wrote:
Quote :
Oh good, I didn't dream it up (sometimes I wonder).

Sometimes I wonder, too.  Did I learn this as an actual fact, or see it in a movie?

It's an actual fact. When I was in Belgium 13 or 14 years ago, they had beer everywhere. They said it was because the water was not clean enough to drink - it was used as a sewer - so people started brewing beer to drink instead. I'm sure it's the same in other countries.
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Driven

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:25 am

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:
Excellent. Do you suppose the Ephesians admonition was for His children in general (healthy and fine), and not addressing those who are suffering or dying ? As with Timothy's ailments:
1 Tim.5:23  Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

The key there seems to be "a little" ?

But would the original Scripture still stand for the mercy of the suffering and the dying elderly ?  Obviously today, alcohol is not our only pain relieving option, so it could be interpreted with today's remedies ?

My pastor spoke on that passage last week, and given the context surrounding the verse, said verse could be interpreted as an instruction to Timothy to take action against bad leadership - which isn't to say that the first meaning is wrong, either.

Further insight into the "drinking" idea: Ecclesiastes 5:18: "This is what I have observed to be good: that it is appropriate for a person to eat, to drink and to find satisfaction in their toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given them—for this is their lot."
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:42 am

Good stuff - we always need to be careful how we quote Eccles though, as many portions have some prose sarcasm, and hopeless statements from man's POV, man without God.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:24 pm

14He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the labor of man, So that he may bring forth food from the earth, 15And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart Psalm 104
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:30 am

Funny thing is, I had wine once.... didn't make my heart glad  Laughing - All alcohol actually gives me pancreatitis pain, so no worries about me becoming an alcoholic I guess
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:42 am

This thread makes me thirsty.
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Xid

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:09 am

Driven wrote:
My pastor spoke on that passage last week, and given the context surrounding the verse, said verse could be interpreted as an instruction to Timothy to take action against bad leadership - which isn't to say that the first meaning is wrong, either.
Based on Paul's style and blunt speaking, if he were instructing Timothy to take action against bad leadership he would have just come out and said it.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:24 am

I would have to agree with that
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:36 pm

As with many things in Scripture, Christians tend to take one of 2 opposing positions.....one side says you can't touch alcohol or you're doomed to hell......the other side says we are free in Christ to basically do what we want.

Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle......some drinking is fine, as long as you are not just doing it to poke a finger in the eye of some brother in Christ who believes differently than you or to demonstrate how free you are. I don't do it around my wife, because she still has issues with it because of her upbringing, which was ridiculously strict in a Holiness tradition.....but if she is elsewhere and I am with people I won't offend, then I will have a beer, typically something nice and dark. I don't like beer I can see through.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:44 am

I agree BD.
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:50 am

I agree
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:00 pm

Well, now that we're all in agreement.....let's have a drink! Very Happy  Very Happy
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kerrick

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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:02 pm

cheers  I agree
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PostSubject: Re: Quick Bible Study - Interpret this...   Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:13 am

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