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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Going To Church   Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:09 pm

I don't feel like going a lot of times. I'm kinda forced to go pretty much. I don't agree with the theology of the church I'm raised in and it's really draining. It's so awkward. Everyone says Happy Sabbath to me and I feel like I'm being someone I'm not. I don't feel comfortable becoming close with too many people because that's one more person I have to let go of when I can finally get away from the SDA church physically.
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BearDad



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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:19 pm

Sister, you are not alone. Our reasons may be different (I'm not Adventist, and while I don't agree with everything said and taught at my church, a feel pretty much in-line with most of it), but our feelings are definitely similar. If I were single I probably wouldn't be going to church. In fact, I often feel like I am going now just to keep up appearances, which isn't good at all.
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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:03 pm

BearDad wrote:
Sister, you are not alone. Our reasons may be different (I'm not Adventist, and while I don't agree with everything said and taught at my church, a feel pretty much in-line with most of it), but our feelings are definitely similar. If I were single I probably wouldn't be going to church. In fact, I often feel like I am going now just to keep up appearances, which isn't good at all.

Agreed.  On occasion I even just don't go (out of apathy).  When I am stressed, depressed or just feeling down I sometimes don't even bother with the effort of making my children get up and drag them to church.

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Deepfriar

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:32 pm

I don't go to church for this reason.  When I find one that at least teaches something kind of close to what I believe I will start going again.  I won't sit under legalistic teaching anymore, I refuse, and I live in the south so it's all over everywhere.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:58 pm

The things is I can't just not go. I'm still under my parents or my school. When I go to college I'll have a bit more control over that. Also, there is pressure because I know that if I don't go I'll be seen as a backslider. Really, it would help a lot if I didn't have to go to a church that I don't agree with... It won't be like this forever.
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Driven

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:52 pm

I felt much the same before I changed churches. I'd come to realize that the church taught that you had to perform as a Christian, and I felt that the pastors were trying to use the Bible to fit their views, and not using the Bible to form them. On top of that, there were a lot of bad decisions made, to the point where I was literally angry every time I went to church. So, when I got my driver's license and could drive myself around (since I had been getting rides from neighbours to this church, and my parents attended yet another assembly), I decided to find a church that taught sound doctrine and that had a good leadership. Fortunately, I found that, and I felt right at home. So hang in there, xenonlion. I'm sure you'll find a church that will help you feel at home at last.
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:03 pm

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I won't sit under legalistic teaching anymore, I refuse, and I live in the south so it's all over everywhere.

cheers
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:43 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, guys.

It seems like there's just negativity everywhere. Like, at church they talk about how Satan is deceiving people or whatever. Then, for school, I have to read The Great Controversy. I really don't want to read this book. Ugh! Well, EGW always talks about Satan all the time. Like chill bro. I know he has deceived people, but is this all there is to talk about? Also, I'm gonna end up "being a statistic" because currently a lot of Adventists are worried about the amount of people, especially, youth who are leaving the SDA church.
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Deepfriar

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:38 am

I agree with you: people talk about Satan and give him too much credit like he can manipulate our minds and force us to do things.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I believe there can be demons that afflict our minds and suggest things, but we always have free will (and remember Satan is not omnipresent as God is).  More often than not, I believe our bad behavior comes from our flesh and not the devil.
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bassdude

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:21 am

Praying that your situation improves sooner than later.....I had a great-aunt and uncle who were SDA missionaries in the Carribean for years.

I will never forget all the fights they had with my grandparents and parents about how going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday was a giant waste of time because God only accepts worship on Saturday.....made no sense to me as a child, makes no sense to me now.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:28 pm

Praying for you.

On a side note, it's kind of sad to hear about people who dislike church or are apathetic to it to me. I remember being there - I felt that way for several years. But my wife and I love our church and even our 6 year old is excited on Sunday mornings.
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xenonlion

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:24 pm

I really hope that church will one day be a pleasant part of my week.
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oteis

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:50 pm

finding the right church is not an easy thing we have been only a few times to church last year.  We tried one church which actually seemed like to only option, but after about 10 visits we had no contact with anyone, sermons were like mcdonalds (it's gross and you get hungry after like 30min.). So we stopped going. This year we started going to a very small independant church group kinda thing. It's exactly what we were looking for. It's basicly meeting Christ, learning about God and meeting eachother. It's like 30 people and 15 kids. Oh and it's interactive. So if you want to add something to the sermon you're free to speak. It's more or less a big bible study group. Just wanted to share that. Praise God!
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:04 am

xenonlion wrote:
I really hope that church will one day be a pleasant part of my week.

Thinking back on my own bad experiences with churches in the past, it will. You'll be less likely to settle for a church just to have somewhere to attend and you'll look until God shows you the right one for you.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:05 am

oteis wrote:
finding the right church is not an easy thing we have been only a few times to church last year.  We tried one church which actually seemed like to only option, but after about 10 visits we had no contact with anyone, sermons were like mcdonalds (it's gross and you get hungry after like 30min.). So we stopped going. This year we started going to a very small independant church group kinda thing. It's exactly what we were looking for. It's basicly meeting Christ, learning about God and meeting eachother. It's like 30 people and 15 kids. Oh and it's interactive. So if you want to add something to the sermon you're free to speak. It's more or less a big bible study group. Just wanted to share that. Praise God!

That's great! When you find one that feeds your soul, it's an amazing and beautiful thing.
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Through The Dark Radio

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:28 am

Deepfriar wrote:
I don't go to church for this reason.  When I find one that at least teaches something kind of close to what I believe I will start going again.  I won't sit under legalistic teaching anymore, I refuse, and I live in the south so it's all over everywhere.

Find a United Methodist Church.  We'll brainwa- . . . I mean, "accept" you as you are Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:45 am

Quote :
United Methodist Church

Methodist teach the law..not free grace... and me and deepfriar only go to free grace theology churches..luckily we have about 5 of them in tulsa  Twisted Evil
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Fundy

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:35 pm

For me I find it important to go to church.  I spent about a year drifting around the local churches to find one that was best for us as a family.  Now it's not perfect for us, but I go as I find it is important for us as a family to meet other Christians and to worship together.  It's also good to get together to talk about reaching those outside the church.  It's great seeing the kids enjoying going to sunday school and such like.

I would try and encourage everyone to find a church that is similar to how they think and get connected with like minded folk.

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Samson

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:33 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:
Quote :
United Methodist Church

Methodist teach the law..not free grace... and me and deepfriar only go to free grace theology churches..luckily we have about 5 of them in tulsa  Twisted Evil

Was that even necessary?
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:42 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:
Quote :
United Methodist Church

Methodist teach the law..not free grace... and me and deepfriar only go to free grace theology churches..luckily we have about 5 of them in tulsa  Twisted Evil



That's a big stretch of what Methodist teach.  They teach salvation through faith in Christ--not by observing the law.  You may have legalistic people in some of those churches, but they are the ones tainting the teachings of the Methodists.


Here's a quick rundown of Methodist teachings and doctrines.  Without a deeper study into it, I would have no problems serving in a Methodist church.

Quote :
Methodist Doctrine:

  • God is all-knowing, possesses infinite love and goodness, is all-powerful, and the creator of all things.


  • God has always existed and will always continue to exist.
  • God is three persons in one, the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit.
  • God is the master of all creation and humans are meant to live in a holy covenant with him. Humans have broken this covenant by their sins, and can only be forgiven if they truly have faith in the love and saving grace of Jesus Christ.
  • Jesus was God on Earth (conceived of a virgin), in the form of a man who was crucified for the sins of all people, and who was physically resurrected to bring them the hope of eternal life.
  • The grace of God is seen by people through the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives and in their world.
  • Close adherence to the teachings of Scripture is essential to the faith because Scripture is the Word of God.
  • Christians are part of a universal church and must work with all Christians to spread the love of God.
  • Baptism is a sacrament or ceremony in which a person is anointed with water to symbolize being brought into the community of faith.


  • Communion is a sacrament in which participants eat bread and drink juice to show that they continue to take part in Christ's redeeming resurrection by symbolically taking part in His body (the bread) and blood (the juice).
  • Wesley taught his followers that Baptism and Communion are not only sacraments, but also sacrifices to God.
  • People can only be saved through faith in Jesus Christ, not by any other acts of redemption such as good deeds.

Methodist Distinctions from Other Protestant Faiths:

  • The most fundamental distinction of Methodist teaching is that people must use logic and reason in all matters of faith.
  • Also important is the acknowledgment of "prevenient," "justifying," and "sanctifying" graces. It is taught that people are blessed with these graces at different times through the power of the Holy Spirit.

    • Prevenient grace is present before they are saved from the error of their ways.
    • Justifying grace is given at the time of their repentance and forgiveness by God.
    • And sanctifying grace is received when they have finally been saved from their sins and the sins of the world.


  • And lastly, the Methodist Church puts a great emphasis on missionary work and other forms of spreading the Word of God and His love to others.

To learn more about the Methodist denomination visit UMC.org.

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Deepfriar

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:20 pm

Savage Amusement wrote:
Quote :
United Methodist Church

Methodist teach the law..not free grace... and me and deepfriar only go to free grace theology churches..luckily we have about 5 of them in tulsa  Twisted Evil
You are lucky indeed...  there's not one here, maybe in Knoxville but I'm not driving an hour and a half.  :p
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:20 pm

Quote :
That's a big stretch of what Methodist teach.  They teach salvation through faith in Christ--not by observing the law.  You may have legalistic people in some of those churches, but they are the ones tainting the teachings of the Methodists.


Here's a quick rundown of Methodist teachings and doctrines.  Without a deeper study into it, I would have no problems serving in a Methodist church.
I went to a Methodist church for over a year..believe me, they teach the law..not that it will save you but that once saved it is the rule of the Christian life (something us free gracers completely disagree with)...In fact it was a methodist study group I attended that was useing Francis Chans book "crazy love" as the topic book of study...as you know Chris I deny that book and consider it a book of lies...
Lets look basically at free grace as me and deepfriar believe and I think you will see the difference between us and methodist...

"Free Grace theology teaches that everyone receives eternal Life the moment they believe in Jesus as their personal Savior and Lord. "Lord" refers to the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and therefore able to be their "Savior". The view distinguishes between the "call to believe" in Christ as a Savior and receiving the gift of eternal life, and the "call to follow" Christ and become Obedient disciples in order to rule with Christ..Those who believe only receive eternal life but wont rule with Christ..
Free Grace Theology advocates believe that God justifies the sinner on the sole condition of faith in Christ, not righteous living. Their definition of faith involves belief, trust, and conviction of Biblical facts to be true.
Free Grace teaches that one need not proffer a promise of disciplined behavior and/or good works in exchange for God's eternal salvation, thus one cannot lose their salvation through Sinning and potential failure, and that assurance is based on faith, not introspection into one's works. That means one does not have to be obedient or make any promise to stop sinning or confess sins in order to be saved. Free Grace teaches that Christians are dead to the law and that the law (including the ten commandments) are void and part of the old covenant and have no place in the life of the Christian..who is under grace instead. Any change that may come to the life of the believer comes by God changing the believer and the believer plays no part in this other than by having faith. This view strongly distinguishes the gift of eternal life (the declaration of justification by faith) from discipleship (sanctification)"
......
This is the basic but there is alot more to it than this...
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alldatndensum
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:27 am

I won't argue the merits of Free Grace, but all I see when I read that is nearly the same as the basics of both the Methodist and Baptist teachings.  What you have experienced were pastors and laity who twisted it out of misunderstanding.  Neither Meth. or Bapt. teach salvation through works.  I can't find it in any of their statements of faith.  To be honest, with Free Grace teachings that I've read, they just come off as a new form of Gnostic gospels (secret knowledge of God that others are too ignorant to discover/heir of arrogance) that really don't provide anything except more room to sin and then not feel conviction over it.

At this, I will take the discussion private if you wish to continue.  I will not allow this place to become the Free Grace VS. Everyone Else board that happened at CMR.  I am already getting complaints about it from other members.

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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 am

Not to go against your wishes alldat but just a general comment...

I particularly like this part:

"Christians are part of a universal church and must work with all Christians to spread the love of God."

I think if all believers tried to do this, it would be amazing. We get so busy pointing out what we think and how the other church has it wrong... I've done it. I use to be a Free Grace believer but I talked with my pastor about our church and we aren't really FG. He insists on grace based teachings but there are things in FG that he believes are unbiblical. I've slowly come to agree and have a real problem with legalistic churches (some of which don't even realize they are being legalistic, like our old church) but it's up to us to work out our salvation and decide what church we should attend.

Not that anyone cares about all that, I just thought I'd share.
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PostSubject: Re: Going To Church   Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:28 am

alldatndensum wrote:
At this, I will take the discussion private if you wish to continue.  I will not allow this place to become the Free Grace VS. Everyone Else board that happened at CMR.  I am already getting complaints about it from other members.

Agreed, (I'm starting to see complaints as well).  If need be we can make CHM a theology discussion free zone (and I will probably have a more heavy handed approach then many of you have seen at the CMR).  No more arguing about tenants of faith.

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