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 Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?

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Staybrite

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:22 pm

Ok guys, please stop with the personal attacks.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:24 pm

messiaen77 wrote:
It truly felt like what I see on TV when I see footage of Osteen or Warren or any of those big megachurch things.  I hated it.

I would, too. Don't mind a band in church if they are really worship leaders instead of just a band. I also hate when the sound guy has the volume up so loud there's no point in singing - God wouldn't be able to hear me anyway. Wink Perhaps you left it out but why didn't you visit more than 3 churches? Surely there are more options in a town large enough to have a mega church.


This thread reminds me of Redman's "Heart of Worship"

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:08 am

topshot rhit wrote:
messiaen77 wrote:
It truly felt like what I see on TV when I see footage of Osteen or Warren or any of those big megachurch things.  I hated it.

I would, too. Don't mind a band in church if they are really worship leaders instead of just a band. I also hate when the sound guy has the volume up so loud there's no point in singing - God wouldn't be able to hear me anyway. Wink Perhaps you left it out but why didn't you visit more than 3 churches? Surely there are more options in a town large enough to have a mega church.


This thread reminds me of Redman's "Heart of Worship"
Yeah, I cut a bunch because I felt like it was becoming a long, rambling story and I wanted to get to my point (assuming I had one).  We actually visited probably 5-6 churches and called/researched several more.  The issue is this city is dead.  It is part of the Indiana Rust Belt and is still reeling from losing a GM plant back in the late 90s.  It is also the home base/headquarters of the Church of God, Anderson, so there are a lot of Church of God folks here.  The megachurch (one of the CHOG congregations) is far and away the largest church in the city.  They do a lot of good, but they are largely known for hosting a number of concerts (Tim Hawkins has played there the last couple years) and its annual bastardization of A Christmas Carol (they always replace the traditional Ghost of Christmas Present with some insertion of outside characters and a subplot that IMO disrupts the flow of the original story.  I'm obviously in the minority on this since it is always well-attended.  Last year the Ghost was played by Peter Pan and the subplot involved Captain Hook kidnapping Tiny Tim.  This year the Ghost was Annie, complete with "Tomorrow" and "Hard Knock Life".)

Most of the churches were perfectly good churches with nice people, solid Biblical preaching, and good community outreach.  The one thing they lacked were young children.  Like I said, our oldest was 3, and all most churches offered for that age group was a nursery with just a few kids.  We did find another wonderful church in a neighboring community, but it was about a half hour away and there was no way we would be able to go in really bad weather, and we were really doubtful that we would be able to be truly active there.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:07 am

OK, here's a serious question I want to pose in light of the original topic.


Is it that church music has become a spectacle, or is there just a general fakeness with Christians these days that prefers flash over substance?

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:18 am

alldatndensum wrote:
Is it that church music has become a spectacle, or is there just a general fakeness with Christians these days that prefers flash over substance?

For the latter part are you meaning the audience or band members (or both)?

For the larger church I attend (I don't normally go to the "contemporary" service BTW since I sing in the choir), I feel the band simply performs songs. Non are professionals and they are OK musically but not super polished like Hillsong. You can sing along to the songs fine but the atmosphere and attitude just aren't that worshipful (IMHO). Contrast that to the one time a church member's son, who is a pro that moved to LA, returned home for a visit and did the music solo. He knew how to lead worship and did it well. Same with my pastor in my small church. I especially like it when the spirit takes over and it moves into harp and bowl style.

I'm sure there's plenty that prefer flash over substance. I like a good show just like the next guy, but not at church. In my estimation, if you are really worshiping the Lord through the music, it will be a good "show" regardless.

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Through The Dark Radio

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:16 am

alldatndensum wrote:
OK, here's a serious question I want to pose in light of the original topic.


Is it that church music has become a spectacle, or is there just a general fakeness with Christians these days that prefers flash over substance?

I would say probably a little bit of both.  But there are also churches where it isn't a spectacle and the members do love the substance.

And my wife doesn't like it when people call the sanctuary an auditorium.  Of course, we also like chancels and narthexes as well Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:33 am

I think there are a couple of reasons for the show.

1.  Churches overextend their budget to get into a building and therefore need member growth for the income to cover the outgo.  So they offer all kinds of incentives to get new people to come.

2.  It's simply man trying to do God's work.  Jesus said, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, well draw all men to Myself."  But churches are hiring fund raising coaches, looking into what's popular and even watering down the gospel to draw more people in.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:43 am

To answer several questions at once  Wink


The general fakeness of a lot of Christians today in churches obviously is an issue...
and that certainly can be reflected in some of the worship "performances" they put on trying to please man as well as well as their own ego.

Here's what I see that I don't like about some of the praise and worship teams out there:

1) Some worship leaders are failed wannabe musicians (or musicians who are trying to relive their past) who use the opportunity simply to be able to play live before people.

2) Some churches have the big extravaganza attitude that they need to make everything a production. Style over substance. The louder and flashier we are the more entertaining we will be.

3) Some worship leaders / teams are very genuine...BUT... they choose songs that are more conducive to singing solo than for a congregation to sing along with. Then to compound matters, they sing the song like they ARE singing it solo...long drawn out notes....pauses...etc etc. This makes it even harder for a congregation to sing along with. This is actually the problem I come across in my church. The other examples I have encountered in previous churches.



I have no issues with singing newer songs, but songs should be chosen with the fact in mind that the congregation is also going to be singing along with it. The songs need to be executed by the worship team with that in mind also.
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ishmael81

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:49 am

alldatndensum wrote:
OK, here's a serious question I want to pose in light of the original topic.


Is it that church music has become a spectacle, or is there just a general fakeness with Christians these days that prefers flash over substance?

Is there a third option here? Or is the conversation just assuming that these are the only two reasons things are what they are?

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to discern how much I should actually participate in the rest of the conversation.
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messiaen77

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:25 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
To answer several questions at once  Wink


The general fakeness of a lot of Christians today in churches obviously is an issue...
and that certainly can be reflected in some of the worship "performances" they put on trying to please man as well as well as their own ego.

Here's what I see that I don't like about some of the praise and worship teams out there:

1) Some worship leaders are failed wannabe musicians (or musicians who are trying to relive their past) who use the opportunity simply to be able to play live before people.

2) Some churches have the big extravaganza attitude that they need to make everything a production. Style over substance. The louder and flashier we are the more entertaining we will be.

3) Some worship leaders / teams are very genuine...BUT... they choose songs that are more conducive to singing solo than for a congregation to sing along with. Then to compound matters, they sing the song like they ARE singing it solo...long drawn out notes....pauses...etc etc. This makes it even harder for a congregation to sing along with. This is actually the problem I come across in my church. The other examples I have encountered in previous churches.



I have no issues with singing newer songs, but songs should be chosen with the fact in mind that the congregation is also going to be singing along with it. The songs need to be executed by the worship team with that in mind also.
Can't disagree with any of this.

I think another issue is that some churches genuinely have no clue what the people they are trying to reach want.  They think people are actually drawn in by the flash and spectacle, but research is showing more and more that the "unchurched" are looking for something real and meaningful and transcendent instead of something that entertains them.  They have plenty to choose from to entertain them, and realistically the church isn't going to win in that area.  But we have a world of opportunity if we give them something that is meaningful.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:12 pm

Good point, m77
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:59 am

As someone who has done both...the old hymns with just a choir and piano, and full band with lights and video at high volume....it's all about balance.

We work from a list of about 20 songs at a time, which we will use for several months before rotating in a couple of new ones or bringing back older ones. We sing some hymns, but often combine them with a newer song or totally rearrange them to have a more modern sound. We keep our volume at a level where you can hear yourself and your neighbors singing, but high enough that you can sing out without feeling like you're drawing attention to yourself.

Balance is the key.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:15 am

Quote :

For the latter part are you meaning the audience or band members (or both)?


Topshot, I was referring more to fakeness in Christianity (especially here in the USA and other Westernized nations) in as a whole.  I am not pointing a finger at the musicians.  While you do have some ego trips out there, I am sure that a lot of the church musicians today are just playing to have a chance to serve with where they are gifted.  Most are probably playing what the pastorial staff and deacon (elder) boards ask of them.


Quote :
Is there a third option here? Or is the conversation just assuming that these are the only two reasons things are what they are?

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to discern how much I should actually participate in the rest of the conversation.


At this point, I was just kind of thinking out loud and posing a question.  I am sure that this is a multi-faceted situation.  The fakeness I was referring to in my previous post, as already stated, wasn't aimed at just the musicians.  I was referring to the church as a whole here.  The body of Christ in our parts of the world seem to fit the biblical description of being "lukewarm" or "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof".  I am going out on a limb with my out loud (or typed) thoughts and thinking that the spectacle worship and most all other issues with the church stem from this.  We have too many people playing church and not really serving Jesus.

Yes, I realize I am pointing a finger with that and do understand that three are pointing back at myself.  I will accept that.  I am lumping myself in with this, too.  I've had mountaintop experiences and rock bottom times.  However, in that in-between state, it is easy to become complacent.  Guilty as charged, Your Honor.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:59 pm

alldatndensum wrote:
Quote :

For the latter part are you meaning the audience or band members (or both)?


Topshot, I was referring more to fakeness in Christianity (especially here in the USA and other Westernized nations) in as a whole.  I am not pointing a finger at the musicians.  While you do have some ego trips out there, I am sure that a lot of the church musicians today are just playing to have a chance to serve with where they are gifted.  Most are probably playing what the pastorial staff and deacon (elder) boards ask of them.


Quote :
Is there a third option here? Or is the conversation just assuming that these are the only two reasons things are what they are?

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to discern how much I should actually participate in the rest of the conversation.


At this point, I was just kind of thinking out loud and posing a question.  I am sure that this is a multi-faceted situation.  The fakeness I was referring to in my previous post, as already stated, wasn't aimed at just the musicians.  I was referring to the church as a whole here.  The body of Christ in our parts of the world seem to fit the biblical description of being "lukewarm" or "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof".  I am going out on a limb with my out loud (or typed) thoughts and thinking that the spectacle worship and most all other issues with the church stem from this.  We have too many people playing church and not really serving Jesus.

Yes, I realize I am pointing a finger with that and do understand that three are pointing back at myself.  I will accept that.  I am lumping myself in with this, too.  I've had mountaintop experiences and rock bottom times.  However, in that in-between state, it is easy to become complacent.  Guilty as charged, Your Honor.
Thanks for clarifying. I see what you're saying now.
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Through The Dark Radio

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:34 pm

The church we go to (UMC) has the music that basically goes with the sermon for the most part.  Our music director works with the pastor to have the music  blend well with the sermon.  Our music director is also the pianist for both the traditional (i.e. with communion) and blended service as well as the drummer & leader of the praise band.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else tired of church music becoming a spectacle?    Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:42 am

what if you level the lights on during praise n worship,gave all your cd n dvd for free!prech some hevey stuff like faith.that our church some plosh but staight foward.look up faith life church branson
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