#^@&!%* Topic about $&!#

Here's my 2 cents and by no means am I sitting on a high horse.  I've come a long way with controlling my tongue but certainly haven't arrived.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

I think curse words fall under this category.

Matthew 12:36
But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.

I think curse words fall under this category, too.

What gets me is when people take the time to type out their curse words.  There's time to scrutinize what has been written before hitting send.

When I saw the title, I was like "Whoa, dude." I didn't know it would actually be about swearing.

The words coming out of my mouth totally changed (according to my wife) when I finally accepted Christ. Didn't realize it was that bad.  

However, if your fowl (sic) language continues, it may just fly away and no longer be an issue.

The spelling Nazi strikes again.   

I still have a problem with this myself.  My language used to be horrible (and still is on occasion).  I have felt very convicted to curb my language but all to often (usually when I am stressed or angry) it tends to slip out.  Wish I could get rid of of the band language all together.

To be honest, stuff has slipped out before when I got startled or something. It hasn't happened too recently, though.

Topshot - haha, I wasn't sure about the spelling of fowl/foul so I looked it up and the internet said it could be spelled both ways... I was a but skeptical of which spelling was right (so I knew I'd get flack if it was incorrect -haha)

When I came to faith I worked hard to keep a clean mouth, and at one point it just clicked and I kept my speech clean for almost a decade !  Didn't make me a better person, just felt good to be more pleasing to God and more of an example to my kids and any "Christian-watchers"... however, as I've said elsewhere, I've drifted over the last 10 years with a bitterness about my pain and health/back problems- thus my heart has become less close to the Holy One, and I've seen my attitudes and language deteriorate.  Each person has their own ways of "backsliding" (or whatever term you want to use), and though I'm not off doing all kinds of evil things, getting drunk, cheating or whatever... I still see my distance from God as just as bad. My spirit wants to follow Christ and seek holiness, but my anger and bitterness is sending me further away from Him. God, I want to "end well".... I keep thinking about what Satan said to the Almighty - Skin for skin, all that a man has will he give for his health - take away his health and he will curse you. It's true !  I hate being where I am, and I believe cussing is just one sign of this symptom.

I also see a lot of curse words used on Christian Facebook threads as well. I brought the subject up on one of them, and a mod removed my post ! Not sure why, there were no cuss words, just the desire to talk about it (it wasn't the CHM one    ). Oh well, I knew I could chat it up with you guys and get honest caring answers.

Lemme throw an example out - you know when you miss the nail and hit your thumb in the garage ? You know those words that jump out of your mouth when it hurts so bad ?
With my back pain, I can move a certain way and the pain hits so bad that the same words come flowing out. I don't want to speak like that, but I also don't want to be in that much pain EVER again.

It's really a frustrating battle... and I'm not sure why I'm talking about it other than I want to share and maybe hear from others about their experiences and triumphs or struggles...

Xid wrote:

Here's my 2 cents and by no means am I sitting on a high horse.  I've come a long way with controlling my tongue but certainly haven't arrived.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

I think curse words fall under this category.

Matthew 12:36
But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.

I think curse words fall under this category, too.

What gets me is when people take the time to type out their curse words.  There's time to scrutinize what has been written before hitting send.

Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth! Thank goodness they weren't swear words! LOL!

I would be a hypocrite if I said I have a clean tongue, and I am ashamed to admit that the garbage spews forth more than it should, especially when I am angry. Only through God's grace have I been able to keep the cussing in check when not alone; really, I do not swear if I am with other people, even when I am angry. I don't say this to excuse the behavior, though, as I believe even when alone we should act like we aren't. After all:

• The true test of integrity is how one acts when no-one else is looking, and 
  
• Christians are never alone.
  

But enough about me ...

I agree that Christians have gotten more loose with their language, and not just in what are commonly recognized as swear words. When I was a kid (many moons ago) I got in trouble when I said one of my friends was "pissed" (can I say that here  ), and to this day I don't use that word (OK, I used it there, but you get it!  ).  However, it has become quite common to hear other Christians use it all the time.

Another one is sucks, as in this discussion sucks. Is that bad? I don't know, but everyone seems to say it, EVEN MY PARENTS.  You know, the ones that would have tanned by bottom had I said it 40-ish years ago.

Just today my wife said it was "hotter than Hades" at work. I chuckled inwardly, thinking, "Is that the same as saying hell? Is hell still a swear word?"

I have also been known to say "oh crap" if something goes wrong or unexpectedly, which oddly enough is something I picked up from my mother (yep, one half of the couple I mentioned above, that same couple that got mad at the word "piss".  Oops, I said it again!  )

My point here is that there are many words used by people, both Christian and otherwise, that under certain conditions qualify as "bad words" per Xid's references.  I was brought up to not say gosh, dang, darn, etc., and I still don't, although somehow "gee wiz", another no-no from my youth, has made it's way into my general vocabulary.  Are those words bad? No, but I sure don't like hearing them and I don't allow my kids to say them, although I am saddened to report that since going to college my 19yo daughter has decided those words are fine.   So much for "train them up ... "; hopefully when she is old  ... 

Another thing that bugs me is literary replacements. For example: s***, or g** d***.  Or even the title of this thread for that matter.  Um, 'scuse me sir ... do you really think that by writing something close but not quite the same will not cause the reader to mentally substitute what you wrote for the real thing, thereby "hearing" what you are not saying.  Hmm...

Then there are the words that no-one questions as being "curse" words.  You know, like the one Van Halen (sort-of) used for an album title.  I confess that particularly vulgar word is the one most likely to spew forth from my anger, and the one I am terrified I will say in front of my wife or kids some day. Not that I think they will be surprised; I just don't want it to happen. It is bad enough that I say it "privately," but what about those Christian artists that say it, and others like it, either in song or simply on stage?  When I hear that I seriously question the artist's commitment to our faith.

I hate this topic.  This long tirade is exactly why I bailed out of the big back-and-forth debate about it at that "other" forum.  Sorry so long guys!  And for those of you that read this far and didn't bail at the first naughty word, thank you!   Now that I've said my piece I am going to hold my peace.

BearDad, I for one read every word (even those horrific cuss words you typed    ) and am so glad to hear this from you, as well as other comments from everyone. It helps to know I'm not alone in the struggle - and that other believers still care about this topic.  It's important to me, cuz though I've been lax about it, the Holy Spirit in me is convicting the Dickens out of me (see what I did there). But it's true. I want to walk closer and be holier, the desire is there. I'm just so stinkin' stubborn and angry that I need to talk about it openly and honestly and not pretend I'm this great Christian that people want to emulate.  Not so - I'm Romans 7 over and over everyday. Thank God for Romans 8.

Quote :

although I am saddened to report that since going to college my 19yo daughter has decided those words are fine.   So much for "train them up ... "; hopefully when she is old  ... 

The same can be said for my kids (26 and 21). It breaks my heart that they want nothing to do with Christianity, yet I worked SO hard as did my wife to raise them in the faith without cramming anything down their throats or alienating them. I'd like to say to you Barry, and reassure myself that God's Word is true and God will bless our faithfulness in raising our children in the Truth. We just have to wait. 

Thanks again for listening to me and for the excellent brotherly admonitions. I love you guys and gals and pray that we can continue to sharpen each other with God's truth and love.

Most of the time I have a check on my tongue.  I've come a long way from the swearing like a drunk sailor teenager I once was.  I am not saying that I am perfect--just that I have come a long way.

I understand that Christians are looser with what they say.  But, who gave some words the meaning they have and are they really as bad as we make them out to be?  Really, what is the difference in me saying "poop" or "Crap" or "Poop" if I smash my finger with a hammer?  Again, is it more offensive for someone to say something about some young lady's "ass" or for him to use some other more socially acceptable replacement word?

I think that we've handpicked words as Christians that we are not supposed to say and given them too much power.  I am not advocating going back to my potty mouth ways.  However, I find it far less offensive for someone to use an occasional "swear word" than I do to overhear someone bragging about their sexual escapades and being graphic about it.  Trust me--I've heard some people who are very vulgar but don't really cuss.  I think that having "no unclean word coming forth from our mouth" refers more to the things we talk about or what we have to say to other people.  I can keep from cussing but still say things to be intentionally mean and tear people down.  I can talk about in public what I do with my wife in the bedroom, too.  I would find those discussions to be more offensive and misleading than the foible of a Christian who says one little "curse" word.

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

The same can be said for my kids (26 and 21). It breaks my heart that they want nothing to do with Christianity, yet I worked SO hard as did my wife to raise them in the faith without cramming anything down their throats or alienating them.

Fortunately both my girls have excepted Christ, and the older one is just as likely to go to a Bible study as she is a movie. I don't always agree with her lifestyle (the way she talks, her materialistic nature, etc.), but I know I'll see her "on the other side."

As for the younger one, she claims she is saved, and she was baptized last Summer, but boy does she remind me of myself when I was her age. Skating on the edge of obedience, half a toe over the the "naughty" line.  She worries me.  If she is really saved, the hallelujah; but if it's all a lie ...  

Oops. I just jacked that thread!  My bad!

BearDad wrote:

Fortunately both my girls have excepted Christ, and the older one is just as likely to go to a Bible study as she is a movie. I don't always agree with her lifestyle (the way she talks, her materialistic nature, etc.), but I know I'll see her "on the other side."

Hm... Which movie is she?

I have a lot of thoughts on this, some similar to what others have said, some different, some contradictory, some are just completely full of sh....aving cream.      (Surely someone knows that reference.)

When I was a kid I started cursing because that's what kids do, they experiment with things.  People laughed at me when I said it, so I kept it up.  About the time I started getting serious about my faith, I really tried to curb it because good Christians don't say those words and all the verses Xid put out there and...yeah, I pretty much stopped except for those finger-smashing moments.  I still got called out on my "Christian cussing" because "when you say crap, you really mean the other thing."  No, when I say crap, I mean crap.  When I say "the other thing" I mean the other thing.

As I got older and into college, I was around a lot of people who cursed a lot, so I slipped back into it in a more casual way.  I wasn't the hardcore curser, just an occassional "mild" one.  After I got married, I pretty much quit because it bothered my wife and so I didn't do it around her and I was usually around her.  Then I had something happen that gave me a new perspective on cursing.  Within a couple of weeks, a friend of mine within the course of about a month said that he was "pissed off" about:

1.  someone cut him off in traffic
2.  the 9/11 attacks
3.  he poured a bowl of corn flakes and it was mostly the crushed up stuff at the bottom of the box

Seriously?  You have the same reaction to people flying airplanes into buildings and killing people as you do having to eat the dregs of a cereal box?  That told me that my impressions of these words was now wrong.  I used to think they conveyed a sense of intensity, but the way I started noticing people using them said they were just becoming a common part of everyday vocabulary with no added meaning.  I decided I could find better ways of saying the same thing, so instead of being pissed, I was angry, irritated, annoyed, irate, livid, enraged, etc.  It was also around the same time I read Miles Davis' autobiography, in which Miles seems to be striving to use f___ or motherf______ as all parts of speech.  Again reinforcing that there is no teeth in these words anymore. 

So where does that leave me now?  I don't think it is a sin to use profanity, but I avoid doing it around anyone besides my closest friends because I know the perception that it is sinful or morally deficient is out there and I don't want to be an obstacle or stumbling block to others.  Even around those friends, I don't just let it rip, because I do feel like in general there are better ways to say things.  I always avoid using "God" in a casual way because I do feel like it is disrespectful and a different sort of irreverent.

So that's where I am on it.

Oh, while this wasn't the question, it does bother me when Christian bands use profanity and did have a problem with Stryper saying "don't know what the hell you're feeling" in "Caught in the Middle" and the f-bomb in the recent POD track.  I also cringe a little at songs like "Rock the Hell Out of You" and even "To Hell With the Devil" because I feel like they are just trying to use it to fit in with the "cool kids."

All good stuff... good thoughts, good discussion.

I wonder, do we apply meaning to these mere "words" in the same way we apply worth to mere rocks like diamonds or gold ? I mean, they are just rocks dug out of the dirt. We're the ones who apply value to them.  In the same way we apply levels of meaning to words: Some "curse adjectives" aren't as bad, where others are simply deplorable ! 
I'm not discounting the fact that they mean what they mean and God's exhortations remain... but again, they are just words.
Thoughts ?

Guilty/Forgiven wrote:

All good stuff... good thoughts, good discussion.

I wonder, do we apply meaning to these mere "words" in the same way we apply worth to mere rocks like diamonds or gold ? I mean, they are just rocks dug out of the dirt. We're the ones who apply value to them.  In the same way we apply levels of meaning to words: Some "curse adjectives" aren't as bad, where others are simply deplorable ! 
I'm not discounting the fact that they mean what they mean and God's exhortations remain... but again, they are just words.
Thoughts ?

Exactly.  I'm struggling to go into detail on this without writing the words, so let me just say I find some of these words distasteful because they are highly disrespectful and dehumanizing to people.  Some are just crude.  Some have a spiritual meaning that I'm just not comfortable with most of the time.  What is interesting to me is those words in the last category are the most acceptable by society.

Mindless cursors become more mindful around me. I don't ask them to be, it is something they do out of respect.

I'm never one to "blame" a person's upbringing for their sins, cuz I think that's a cop out. But I do find it ironic that the words that spew out of my mouth when I spill my water, or stub a toe, are the exact curse phrases my Dad used daily as I was growing up. 
Hmmmmm. Just one of those sins that I have to deny and strive to clean it up a little at a time.

I know a lot of folks will disagree but this article sums up my feelings pretty well. Words are words. Intentions are not. What matters more?

[quote=messiaen77]I have a lot of thoughts on this, some similar to what others have said, some different, some contradictory, some are just completely full of sh....aving cream.      (Surely someone knows that reference.)

[/quote]

Be nice and clean . . . shave every day and you'll always look keen.

ishmael81 wrote:

I know a lot of folks will disagree but this article sums up my feelings pretty well. Words are words. Intentions are not. What matters more?

Thanks for that article ! Just got to reading it this morning, as well as all the comments below it.
Quite a perspective on it. While it doesn't pound the final nail in the coffin of the subject, it does make one think, as do people's comments.

I may crucify myself over my foul mouth, all the while justifying a bad attitude at work... perhaps my words aren't the true sin, rather the attitude of my heart from which they flow.

Good stuff to think about. None of us are holy outside of God's imputed holiness... and He calls us to be more Christ-like, but in our attempts to be "wholesome" (not for salvation but cuz of salvation) we find ourselves sinning in one way or another (and ALL of us DO), I don't feel crucifying ourselves over our sins is the answer anymore than throwing our hands up and giving in to sin is correct either. 

It's a fine and narrow road we walk, and sometimes we just don't have perfectly spelled out answers for everything.

I found this article very enlightening... though some of it I was already aware of
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/what-bleep-does-bible-say-about-profanity#U9uorErEJKAdXiw3.01

ishmael81 wrote:

I know a lot of folks will disagree but this article sums up my feelings pretty well. Words are words. Intentions are not. What matters more?

I'm not going to comment on the article, but if it's all about intentions then was this wrong:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/08/25/pkg-stevens-china-boy-survives-being-hit-by-car.cnn&hpt=hp_c3&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

The driver admitted to not seeing the kid, that he didn't intend to hit him. Oh well, it's OK then! What if the kid had died? Would it still be OK, since their were no evil intentions?

To show his love for his new bride a man buys her roses. Unfortunately, she never told him that she is deathly allergic to roses and she has a reaction, needing medical care. Should he apologize? Nah! His intentions were good. 

A man forgets his anniversary and his wife is crushed; he has really hurt her feelings. But it's OK, because he didn't intend to. There's no need to apologize, as he had no intention of forgetting the important date and hurting her feelings. Why should he feel sorry? He is completely innocent.

A man is married but his relationship with his wife has soured and he feels no love for her or from her. Small talk with a female coworker turns into drinks after work, which then turns into an affair. The man feels alive again because someone is showing him love. After some time his wife finds out, and as might be expected she is devastated. How can she ever trust him, or anyone, again!? She feels utterly hopeless and unloved. Should the man apologize? Should he give up the affair and return to his wife, if she'll forgive him? Nah! Why should he? He never intended to hurt her, he was just looking out for himself? How is it his problem? His intentions were never bad, or hurtful, or deliberate. So all is good, right?

Johnny is slow; his brain just doesn't function like it should and he cannot process information like normal people. All his life his mother, with no malice or evil intent, called him her stupid child. Johnny, feeling he was stupid and of no worth, killed himself. Is his mother at fault? Should she have treated him differently, told him he was special, despite his mental slowness? She didn't intend to hurt him or make him feel as he did.

A man had a bad day at work, constantly getting nagged by his boss to complete a project, pestered by coworkers asking for help, and harassed by unsatisfied customers. When he got home one of the first things his wife said was, "Don't forget you were going to fix the screen door tonight dear." The man had had enough and blew up, saying "I'll fix the @#&@$* screen door when I am @#$%$#@#$ good and ready. Why is everyone @#$@%@#$ nagging me! Why won't they just @#%&^#$% leave me the @#$!$ alone!" Did the man intend to yell at his wife? Did he intend to swear at her? Did he intend to take out his bad day on her? Nah! It's all good, right? No harm done.

Words are not just words, and good intentions with bad results, or the lack of bad intentions, is not an indication that one's behavior is acceptable.

Solomon wrote:

The words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.  (Proverbs 12:18)

There is no evil intent in recklessness.  Other translations use harsher language, such as "rash", but it still does not indicate intent.

And contrary to what the blogger says, saying "I hate you" to your friend in response to his getting a new car is not harmless. Sure there is no intent of real hate, but there is evidence of jealousy and envy, which is sin. A real friend would be happy for their buddy and show it, perhaps even say "I am happy for you."

Forgiveness. It's what God's wants His children to be better at.